that's what we discuss today. we discuss this idea of the day after. everyone said you don't have a day after, we just are creating a unbelievable day after with a completely new vision of how to have a government and security there and who can provide that security, again, with israel taking over the security and we discussed that. i think we have very good ideas. it's not going to be easy but it can be possible. vice pres. vance: we are creating a peace plan and infrastructure here where nothing existed even a week and a day ago. that's going to require a lot of work and ingenuity and what we've seen built in the past seven days we're on an incredible pathway here to do something that's never been done. you heard steve witkoff and the president say this, if we do this the right way it can create a model that can lead to other peace agreements all over the

world because we know what's possible when you're willing to think outside of the box and put in some elbow grease to get it done. >> and now to new york for the final debate among candidates to be the next mayor of new york city, zohran mamdani, curtis sly what and andrew cuomo. moderator: good evening. welcome to the final general election debate in the race for mayor of new york city. i'm errol lewis, political anchor at spectrum news new york 1, we're coming to you live from

the la guardian performing arts center in queens. over the next 90 minutes you'll hear from the leading may i don't recall candidates about the biggest issues in new york including the cost of live, the education crisis and public safety. i'm joined tonight by katy honan of "the city" and brian lehrer of wnyc radio and "gothammist." >> tonight's debate is brought to you by the new york city campaign finance board that administers the matching funds program. it's also sponsored by spectrum news new york 1, wnyc-gothammist, and spectrum noticias and the greig new mar graduate school of journalism at cuny. the museum of the city of new york and john jay college of criminal justice. you can watch tonight's debate without a paywall on nyone.com

and it's being broadcast on nyc tv, wnyc radio, c-span, and thecity.nyc. it's in spanish on spectrum noticias and youtube. >> the candidates joining us tonight have met a fund raiding threshold. the so et is currently held by eric adams who has decided not to run for re-election. in alphabetical order, andrew cuomo is a former governor of new york running on the independent line. zohan mamdani is the democratic nominee, representing queens since 2021. curtis sly what is the republican nominee and founder of the guardian angels. >> now for the rule. the rules you see on the screen right now have been agreed to by all the candidates. each will deliver an opening statement up to 45 seconds.

answers to our questions will be limited to 60 seconds with a chance for rebuttals. candidates will have an opportunity to ask one opponent, one question in our cross-examination round. let's begin this. will be the last time all three candidates will be together on stage. the next mayor will be sworn into office 71 days from now and january 1, 2026. he will inherit a city with an affordability crisis, a tense relationship with the federal government, and millions of new yorkers who very likely did not support him. let's again our debate with your opening statements to viewers. you have 45 seconds. the order was determined by a random drawing on live television this morning and we'll begin with curtis sly what. good evening. -- curtis sliwa. good evening. curtis: it's us versus them. us versus the insiders and billionaires. us versus cuomo and us versus zohan. this is a campaign not about power but a campaign about you

the people. i know many of you hardworking new yorkers, you tell me you've been pushed aside. you've been silenced. these are the people that have all the money, all the connections, they made their backroom keels. but we have something more important. we have you, the people. and we're not going to be silenced anymore. we're going to fight. tonight, i want you to look at the content of my policies. to know that i've served this city for more than 50 years, this city that i love. and i'm going to share with you my vision to make new york city safer again. to make new york city more affordable again. and where everybody wants -- everybody once again can live the american dream. >> thank you. andrew cuomo. good evening. andrew: thank you. good evening. new york's first thank you to the moderators, thank you for being here. and go nics, go nics, go nics. i hope we get an update on the score. new york is the greatest city on the globe. but we are at a pivotal moment.

and the voters are going to have to decide in this election what candidate has the plan to save the city and what candidate can get it done, not just talk about it. my main opponent has no new ideas. he has no new plan. it's bill deblasio rehashed. he's never run anything, never managed anything, never had a real job. i would hire 5,000 new police, build 100,000 new unit, i will cut tax, ill will -- i will grow jobs and i will end this hate mongering and division that is tearing this city apart. because that's not who we are as a new yorker. as new yorkers. you know i can make change. you know i can make government work. i've done it before. bill ready on day one. >> thank you. next is zohran mamdani. zohran: thank you to the moderators and thank you to new yorkers for tuning in, i know

you'd rather be watching the nics. while there are three candidates on the stage you'll only hear two messages. my opponents who spend more time trying to convince the other to drop out will speak only of the past. i'm the sole candidate running with a vision for the future the city. and true cuomo will spend much of tonight attack me, he's a desperate man, lashing out because he knows the one thing he's always cared about, power is slipping away from him he will share conspiracy theories and he will do these things to make you feel that this should keep you up at night. but i've been spending the last year listening to new yorkers. i know what keep you. whether or not you can afford to live a safe and dignified life in this city. i have plans for our future my opponents only have fear. >> thank you very much, candidates. let's start tonight with some breaking news that happened yesterday afternoon when federal agents descended on canal street, arresting street vendors who have been selling counterfeit designer merchandise

for as long as anybody can remember. this is the first time we've seen major federal law enforcement activity outside of arrests at immigration courts in lower manhattan. some are ringing an abram bell calling it a dangerous, unprecedented use of federal agents in new york city. other says the vendors were a major quality of life problem in the neighborhood, that the nypd had ignore. so i'll ask each of you to respond to this. how should the mayor and nypd have handled both the presence of the street vendors and then the federal action. we'll start with you, mr. cuomo. andrew: i've had a lot of dealing with president trump. there's only one way to deal with him. he puts his i think if for the your chest, you have to put your finger right back in his chest. i've had this situation with i.c.e. interfering in new york before. it was upstate new york where i.c.e. just showed up and starred to take action. and i called the president and i went dunn to the white house and i said that doesn't work in new york. you don't send i.c.e. in without

coordinating with our police. it's not smart. it's duplicative. and it's dangerous. we don't need i.c.e. to do quality of life crimes. we dent need them to deal -- worry about illegal vendors. that's a basic policing function for nypd, consumer affairs, etc. i would have called the president, and i would have said look, you're way out of bounds. they're way out of bounds. call them back or i'm going of the nypd step in and stop them. because this is not their jurisdiction. you're in the city of new york. >> mr. mamdani? zohran: i.c.e. is a reckless entity that cares little for the law and even lesser in people they're supposed to serve. what we need to be doing here in our city is to end the chapter of collaboration between city hall and the federal government which we've seen under mayor adams. what we need to do is actually pass the street vending reform bill that was been in the city

council, some of which this mayor has actually overridden. that's an example of hue we can both protect street vendor, ensure quality of life and leave no stone unturned in delivering for the people this city as opposed to working with the president who is looking to declare war on those same people. >> mr. sliwa. curtis: unlike both of my adversaries, i patrolled that area and that activity has been going on for a long time. selling the knockoffs, sometimes stolen contraband by a series of people of the local fifth precinct make arrests. when they have obviously cause to do so. and they complain they have to release them because of no cash bail, of which both of my adversaries are in favor of and i am not. the feds should not have stepped into the situation. there's no communication between local authority and the feds. this is a matter that should have been left up to the nypd. but we can't physical late --

tolerate citizens attacking our federal law enforcement forces in the street because that will just lead to anarchy. >> let me ask a related question. president trump has been commenting on this race and all of you on a regular basis. he's been less than glowing when talk about each of you. especially you, mr. mamdani. i would like you each to describe whatever combination of defiance, diplomacy and cooperation you will use as mayor if president trump continues to increase the federal government's role in the affairs of our city while also threatening to decrease funding. starting with you, mr. sliwa. curtis: my adversaries have decided to bump chests with president trump to prove who is more macho. you can't beat trump. he holds most of the cards. he's already cut federal funding for medicaid, for snap program and has threatened to cut more funds. if you're all of a sudden going to get adversarial you're going to lose. who gets hurt? the people of new york city.

with trump, it's always the art of the deal. you have to go, you have to try to negotiate. whether it's with his minions or himself. he'll want you to give in order to get a little bit. but if you immediately act like you're going to take him on, like you know, it's going to be a one-on-one fight we're going to lose. all the people in new york city are going to lose. you have to be able to show respect and i think if you show respect you'll get respect and you'll protect the new yorkers who are so desperately in need of federal funds. what's the good of it? they'll bump chests with donald trump, they won't get the money. and then they'll blame donald trump. i will negotiate with donald trump, and try to get the best deal possible for our poor and indigent citizens. >> ok, mr. cuomo. andrew: the difference on this question is i've actually lived it and i've done it. with president trump over many years. the most difficult situation that this country has gone

through, covid, plus. you're wrong. you're going to have to confront president trump. he is hyper aggressive and he is going to overstep his bounds. and you are going to have to confront him. and you can beat him. i confronted him and i have beaten him. he was going to quarantine new york during covid. and i stopped him. he was going to cut aid to federal programs and i stopped him. but, you also want to be in a place where you can cooperate on good things because we need federal help if we're going to save our city and rebuild our city. president trump has the respect -- has to respect you. he sent the national guard into 20 cities. city he didn't send it into in new york. because i talked to him and i said we don't need you here. he has said he'll take over new york if mamdani wins and he will. because he has no respect for him. he thinks he's a kid and he's going to knock him on his tucchus.

it is a balance. but you're going to have to be adversarial when you need to. but you want to cooperate to get good things done in this city. and you need federal help. zohran: we first just heard from the republican candidate for mayor and then from donald trump's puppet himself, andrew cuomo. you could turn on tv any day of the week and you'll hear donald trump share that his pick for mayor is andrew cuomo. he wants cuomo to be mayor not because it'll be good for new yorkers but because it'll be good for him. donald trump ran on three promise he was ran on creating the single largest deportation force in american history. he ran on going after his political enemies. and he ran on lowering the cost of living. if he wants to talk to me about the third piece of that agenda, i'll always be ready and willing. if he wants to pursue the first and second piece of that agenda at the expense of new yorkers, i'll fight him every single step of the way.

>> rebuttal for mr. cuomo. drip that's not what donald trump said. he does an analysis of the race. he wants mamdani. that's his dream. he would use him politically all across the country and he will take over new york city. make no mistake. it will be president trump and mayor trump and he will come in and take over the city. i have no doubt. all he said was, his analysis is after the poll, he -- it's a tough choice between a democrat and a communist. and he considers mamdani a communist, between a communist and a democrat it's a tough choice for him. >> thank you, candidates. brian wants to talk to you about some important issues on the minds of new yorkers. >> hi, candidates. thank you for coming tonight. the cost of living is our next topic. you've all cited it as a major

factor. so many new yorkers are experiencing this, especially when it comes to rising housing costs. and many new yorkers were shocked this week as a new report from the group advocates for children revealed that about 154,000 new york city public school students have been homeless at some point during the last year. 65,000 lived in homeless shelters. even more were in doubled up situations with no home of their own. it's never been over 150,000 before, they tell us. it ams to one in seven new york city kids. as mayor, how would each of you tackle this problem to help this vulnerable population and in this round we'll go mr. mamdani, mr. cuomo, mr. sliwa. mr. mamdani you go first. zohran: this is a stain on our city to see this many people in our public cool system be homeless and know that it's the ninth consecutive year that it's

more than 100,000 of them. we need to ensure next year is not the same we'll do that by building the housing necessary such a new yorkers are not priced out of the city or forced to live in shelters. that's why my campaign is going deliver 200,000 new, affordable homes across the five boroughs all while freezing rent for more than two million rent stabilized tenants. in the public school system we also have a program called every child and family is known. it links a child who is living in a homeless shelter with an employee of the public school system. it also links that employee with the child's family. it's been shown to increase attendance records, self-esteem, a level of belonging in the school system. i'll increase that pilot program to more than 200 schools and we'll do it because we have to deliver for these children. >> mr. cuomo. andrew: zohran is agree actor, he missed his calling. freeze the rent sounds great. yeah. it affects about 25% of the number of housing units in the city of new york. it's not a new idea.

bill deblasio did it, turned out to be a debacle. it does nothing for 75% of the units. for the 25% it just postpones the increase and actually causes us to lose units because landlords took them off the market. >> i'd ask you to address the homeless children question. andrew: the answer to homeless children, you need more affordable housing. and i'm saying freeze the rent was done under deblasio, it doesn't work. it's a canard and a great three-word slogan for tiktok. the way to increase availability of affordable housing is to build affordable housing. i was the h.u.d. secretary. i did it all across the country. we have 1% vacancy rate. we're not building enough affordable housing and you need a competent, productive government to do that. and that's what i've done across the country, across the state, make government work. you get the supply up, the rents

will come down. >> thank you. mr. sliwa. curtis: -- zohran: we are in the ninth consecutive year of 100,000 people being homeless in the school system. that began when andrew cuomo was mayor. he sent spent more money on a singing water fountain at la guardian than the average cost of an affordable housing unit. that's the record on display. we need a change in the city, not more of the same. andrew: if i may. the homeless issue, number of homeless since i left has more than doubled. during his administration and the state's administration. since i left, homeless rate is more than doubled. when i left the vacancy rate on housing was 4.5%. it's now 1%. this man never even proposed a

bill on housing or education. never even proposed a bill. >> mr. sliwa, it's your turn. curtis: andrew, you didn't leave you fled from being impeached by the democrats in the state legislature. you fled. but. let's get back on topic. because i'm the only candidate up here who has been into many of the over 300 department of homeless services shelters and the family shelterers unsafe for the families there. we have to make them safer. we have to bring teachers into the shelters. many times, the mothers or the guardian have to get on bus after bus and take them to a school that's two, two and a half hours away. this is a horror situation that's taking place. we have to prioritize this. because this is number of homeless children is going to grow. it takes five years to build affordable housing. we need to address it in the

shelters itself. to be able to handle it. so that the teachers can come in whether they're public school teachers, charter school teachers and i know there are a number of parochial school teachers who love children who would volunteer their efforts to do that. >> we'll give it to katy now to ask about another aspect of affordable housing. >> we're going to switch to the millions of new yorkers who are renters, specifically in rent-regulated apartments. there are more than a million new yorkers living in these unit, most rent stabilized. mr. mamdani you proposed a rent freeze for the nantz. mr. cuomo you don't support that and proposed a new means test for having a rent stabilized apartment. mr. mamdani, our question. how can you know in advance what the balance between landlord needs and tenant needs will be in future years? we've seen a lot of inflation in recent years. having small -- haven't small landlords felt that pinch as well. we have other questions for the other candidates. zohran: we have seen time and

again mayors use their powers to hike the rent on the same more than two million new yorkers. this same rent guidelines board did a study that found that landlords of those units had seen their profits increase by more than 12%. their response? hike the rent on rent stabilized tenant who was a median household income of $60,000. i believe that tenants across our city deserve relief and i also believe that city government can work to alleviate the pressures for landlords of those units without having to put that burden on those same tenants. it's possible to keep new yorkers in this city and to help landlords with rising insurance cost, water,000,000,000 con-edison and a broken property tax system. >> mr. sliwa what's your proposal for helping with historically high rent burdenses in stabilized or market rent apartments? curtis: we have 6,000 empty apartments. we need to move those families with children. in for those who live in

rent-stabilized apartment, and have their rent subsidized, zohran mamdani, we need to make sure that the big realtors, that they have to pay a vacancy tax. because they're holding off on those apartments, they're not putting them out into the marketplace because they want to slip the building, not for the mid sized landlords or small land boards, they need -- left hand lords they need the help. there are a number of people in the outer borrows, think own the home, live on the property. they're not absentee landlords. two, three, four apartments. they're deciding not to put them in the mark place when somebody leaves or dies. they have to deal with tenant landlord court which is a nightmare for small landlords. we've got to make sure it's a fair playing feld so the tenants are protected but the landlords are protected so they're not stuck with squatters for four, five, six years which destroys their equity and forces them to leave.

>> thank you. mr. cuomo, you signed a law in 2019 repealing a means test to live in a rent stabilized apartment. what's your position now? and what changed? andrew: the 2019 law was -- it added tenant protections that had never been added before. and protections against tenant evictions. but to answer your question, thn said that -- zohran said the tenant doesn't have to pay more rent but we'll cover the landlord's costs. no. you can be the do both. and that's not what happened. we did freeze the rent with deblasio. we lost units because the landlords took them off the market because you weren't covering their costs. the reason the rent guidelines board went up after the freeze was because you had to make up for the backlog of costs. and this, i'm going to freeze

the rent, people think it applies to all of them. no. just the 25% of units that are rent-stabilized. by the way, it's all b.s. because the mayor doesn't have the power to do it anyway. the remember guidelines board does. and he doesn't control the rent guidelines board. so nothing is going to happen. it's all this. it's just more political blather. >> mr. mamdani? >> if you want a candidate for mayor who tells you everything that he cannot do, then andrew cuomo should be your choice. if you want a candidate for mayor who will use every tool at their disposal including the nine appointees at the rent guidelines board, all of whom are appointed by the mayor, then i am the candidate for you. >> we have to go -- you weren't naped, i'm sorry. >> can i just -- my name was invoked.

>> quickly. curtis: the mayor doesn't appoint the rent guidelines board. he's wrong. they are appointed to a term. and they're -- drip and they're on holdovers. when the term is over you can appoint. it takes a number of years get control. >> candidates. candidates right now we are blocks away from the site of the long island city rezoning plan which has been urn consideration for a decade at this point. and in its latest version would create 15,000 new apartments. that plan, like the recently passed city of yes five borough rezone, reflects a reality that hundreds of thousands of units, as many as one million new units, will be needed in new york city over the next 10 years. what is your plan to get new units build quickly and the order of this will be mr. cuomo, then mr. sliwa, then mr. mamdani. andrew: sliwa said before, it takes five years bill affordable housing. no it doesn't. no it shouldn't. that's an incompetent

government. you can actually get competent government, well-managed government, i built la guardia airport even though he doesn't like it in four years. ok. so don't tell me it takes five years to build a housing unit. you have to redo h.p.d. you have to change the entire organizational structure. you have the zoning. but you have to start hundreds if not thousands of sites simultaneously. private sector developers. partnering with not for profits. partnering with c.d.c.'s. use city-owned sites. use air rights. make a deal with unions. but this has to be the number one priority. the way i did second avenue subway or the mario cuomo ridge or the other bridge this project is thousands of housing developments being accelerated, expedited, facilitated at one time. and we need 500,000 units.

that's the way you'll make new york city affordable. and still allow the talent to come here. >> mr. sliwa. curtis: i'm the only candidate here on the stage who's opposed to the city of yes, both my adversaries are for it. make sure on election day when you turn over your ballot, and you have the initiatives, vote no. you know how oftentimes i've been accused, how will you work with the democratic controlled city council? i, adrian adams and the predominant democrats including many of the very liberal and progressive believe no to yes. i have a simple plan. it takes a year. we have 25 empire state buildings that would be empty and just have office space. never be used. business doesn't operate the way it used. to retrofit them to affordable participants. most are in manhattan. the infrastructure is there. you set up a partnership with developers, it'll put men and

women to work. you'll get your affordable apartments a lot quicker and not be a burden to the outer boroughs and the residential communities because you're in the back pockets, andrew, of the developers who wine, dined and pocketlined you. >> let me ask you a followup on that, mr. lee what. do you think each selected city councilmember should have veto power over whether or not housing gets built in their district? curtis: absolutely what happened to zoning? we throw it out. eric adams. this city of yes is on steroids. and he went wild taking care of his developer friends as he knew he would be one and done. i told you he was corrupt. i told you there would be chaos. and i warned you in 2021, you should have elected me mayor then. >> mr. mamdani. zohran: we knead to build more housing across new york city. today new york city builds about four houses for 1,000 people. jersey city is at seven. tokyo is at about 10. we need to do this by

streamlining the processes of private sector construction across the city. by ensuring we're building more around hubs of mass transit. and we also need to ensure that the public sector is building truly affordable housing. and what i mean by truly affordable is housing that's built with the immediate ab household income in mind which is $70,000 for a family of four. that's why my administration will do exactly that, scaling up programs we already had in h.p.d. like senior affordable rental apartments. like extremely low level affordable. these are the programs that will deliver a city new yorkers can afford. >> there was reference to the three housing charter amendment questions. mr. cuomo is for them. sliwa is against them. where do you stand? the secretary: i'm appreciative they'll be on the pal lot. we desperately need to bill more housing and i know the jones create in the building of that

housing should be. >> what is your opinion. come on. >> yes or no. >> what's your opinion, yes or no. >> they're pointing out what i was about to. zohran: i think as you can see two people are appealing for the republican party's votes. and myself. >> answer the question for once. >> my question to you was do you support the three billion lot amendment questions? zohran: i have not taken a position on those ballot amendments. >> what a shocker. >> we are going to move on. andrew: once he takes it he'll change it anyway. >> the rhetoric on the campaign trail has become more heated in recent weeks. we have reached a point where two of the candidates on stage hear tonight have armed security. i would like to spend a few minutes to see if we can dial down the rhetoric. mr. mamdani, some jewish new

yorkers continue to say your comments on israel and the war in gaza leave them feeling unsafe and concerned about their future in our city. recently several prominent new york rabbis took the unusual step of denouncing your candidacy, including the rabbi of the major synagogue. do you have any regrets about how you've dealt with these issues? will your long standing views on the subject get in the way of your ability to be an effective mayor? zohran: i look forward to being a mayor for every single person that calls this city home. not just those who voted for me in the democratic primary. not just those that vote for me in the general election. but all .5 million new yorkers. that includes jewish new yorkers who may have concerns or opposition to the positions that i've shared about veil and palestine. just a few weeks ago, i was on the m-57, the slowest bus in new york city. and as i was seated there, there was a speech therapist sitting next to me who said she was jewish.

she said her daughter was a huge fan but she was not yet decided on who she was going to vote for. she shared to me about her fears in this city. about rising anti-semitism. and i told her what -- told her what i will tell new yorkers today. i will be the mayor who doesn't just protect jewish new yorkers but celebrates and cherishes them. who doesn't just increase funding to hate crime prevention programs by 800% or ensure the nypd are outside temples and synagogues on high holy days but delivers on the hidden voices curriculum in our school system so children learn about the brewty and breadth of the jewish experience here in the five bo roes. >> i've got a different for. >> can i comment on that please? curtis: not everything -- andrew: not everything is a tiktok video. you went denounce the global intifada which is kills jews. it was not several rabbis.

it was 6 a rabbis who signed the letter. not several. >> let me ask you a related question, mr. cuomo. many new yorkers have serious grievances with israel and the way the israeli government under benjamin netanyahu has conducted the war in gaza and expanded settlements in the west bank. what would you say to and how would you handle new yorkers who are in the streets if you're mayor, protesting the actions of the netanyahu government? andrew: fine. that's your right. protest. demonstrate. disagree. god bless america. god bless new york city. and there's no doubt that there's two sides on what's going on and the passions are very high. that doesn't, that doesn't justify anti-semitic behavior in new york. it doesn't justify having a jewish population that feels unprotected in new york. it doesn't justify leaders who stoke the flames of hate hey tread against jewish people.

which is what zohran does in my opinion. >> i'll give him a chance to answer, then go to mr. sliwa. zohran: i have heard from jewish new yorkers about their fears. about anti-semitism in this city. and what think deserve is a leader who takes it seriously. who roots it out of these five boroughs not one who weaponizes it as a means by which to score political points on a debate stage. >> mr. sliwa. curtis: -- >> excuse me. curtis: excuse me, mr. cuomo, it's my turn. it's like two kids in a school-yard. andrew: i heard you on the radio this morning. curtis: this is personal for me. i know you are under threat. the her of my two youngest sons is prosecuting this person who came up and tried to do you harm. but let me speak on behalf of my two sons. when they've heard some of the statements you've made, like in support of global jihad and i hear some people out there say

the jews, they time is through which fans here same thing. they're frightened. they're scared. they view you as the arsonist who fans the flames of anti-semitism. they cannot suddenly accept the fact that you're coming in like a firefighter and you're going to put out these plames. you've got a lot of explaining to do. a lot of apologizing to do. my sons are afraid. their family, their friends, many in the jewish community, are concerned, if you become mayor. because they don't think when anti-semitism rears its ugly head which it's now doing more than ever before that you will have the ability to come in and put out those flames of hate. zohran: i think there is room for disagreement on many positions and many policies. but i also want to correct the record. i have never, not once, spoken in support of global jihad. that is not something that i have said.

and that continues to be ascribed to me and frankly i think much of it has to do with the fact that i'm the first muslim candidate to be on the precipice of winning this election. all the same, curtis, i do still want to be the mayor that will keep your sons safe. that will keep every single new yorker safe. and it is my job to not only deliver on that commitment but also to ensure that new yorkers feel it every single day that they live in this city. >> candidate, brian will take us into the next section. >> and the next section is, some individual political questions. one for each of you. let me start with you, mr. cuomo. mr. cuomo, the last time most new yorkers saw you before this campaign was when you resigned your seat as governor under scandal in 2021. the most recent quinnipiac university poll in this race shows that 54% of likely voters

say you're unethical. meanwhile, you also have strained relations with governor hochul, state attorney general hety shah jails and others. what would you say right now to new yorkers who have questions about your moral compass and concerns that you cannot effectively work with other elected officials? andrew: first, someone misstated the facts. but i resigned because there was allegations made, i didn't want to waste the time and distract state government. i knew it was going to take a long time to sort out. i left. which i thought was respectful to state government. we sorted it out. legally. nothing came from any of the allegations. i was dropped from the cases. you know that. we've had this discussion four times. but you like to talk about the past rather than yesterday. i chose governor kathy hochul. i would have no problem working

with him. -- with her. the legislature irk got 11 budgets passed on time most in american political history. they haven't gotten one done on time since i was there. so don't tell me who knows the work, who knows how to work with the legislature. and mayor being able to deal with that legislature is key. because don't kid yourself, i've watched every governor and mayor since ed koch. there's a tension between the city and the state. the city is arguing through its budget, the state is saying no. and the city has been getting screwed by the state and that has to change and the city has to be doing bert. >> many new yorkers you've often presented yourself as more of a well-known new york character than a serious policy expert. your critics said your candidacy is making it more likely zohran mamdani can win the election. what do youcy to them and others who feel that while your name

recognition has seen a boost, your candidacy is not helpful to new yorkers, including those who share your views? curtis: i have 13 campaign offices open throughout the outer boroughs. you see the excitement and energy of the working class people i represent. i am the republican populist candidate representing the working class and i'm also, katy, the candidate on the independent line. first ever. put together by my wife nancy who loves animals like so many, save the animals. no kill shelters. animal abusers go to jail. so people know that i'm not just running to protect people which has been my life, as leader of the guardian angels. i'm there to protect our pets an animals. because remember, mahatma gandhi said, a society that does not take care of its animals does not take care of its people. homeless, emotionally disturbed, veterans, i'm out there every day tending to their needs with the guardian angels.

doing things that the city and state should have been doing a long time ago. but neglected them and instead spent $7 billion on migrants that we don't even know. that is a disgrace. we should be there for our own people who are suffering and walllowing in desperation and despair. >> mr. mamdani, you have criticized the politics of the past where leaders either avoid taking a stand on a key issue or try to be all things to all people but at times during this campaign, you've carefully avoided answering tough questions. we saw an instance a few minutes ago when i asked about how you flood vote on those billion lot initiatives next month. we've asked whether you support a major rezoning push for part of queens, some of which is in your district. you've been unclear on how you think the city schools should be run, its governance structure. how is that different from politics as usual? zohran: when it comes to our

schools, i believe that every single child deserves to have an excellent public education. and we have not seen that under the stewardship of those schools with this may i don't recall administration. we have not seen it because we're not fully funding those schools. we are not on track to comply with the class size mandates of those schools. we are not even on track to ensure greater literacy levels across those schools despite strides that have been taken with n.y.c. reads. with rezoning i've been clear i'll celebrate the additional housing units across the city. i also believe gantry state park and queens bridge park should be one contiguous park. those are things one can believe at the same time. and my critiques of the politic os they have past is right here on the stage. you can seen in andrew cuomo with someone who had 0 years to deliver on so much of what he's spoken about. he says that taken five years to build affordable housing is the sign of an incompetent government. by his own words that mean he is

must have led an incompetent government. that's what we are seeing. that's the record that's actually on offer. andrew: i understand my friend doesn't really understand government. the governor doesn't build housing in new york city. zohran: not if it's you. andrew: no legally there are jurisdictions. the governor doesn't pick up trash. he doesn't run the fire department. that's what the mayor does. the mayor builds housing. the state allocates funding for localities. and i allocated more funding for housing than any governor in the history of the state of new york. all right. i did things. you have never had a job, you've never accomplished anything. there's no reason to believe you have any merit or qualification for 8.5 million lives you don't know how to run a government you've don't know how to handle an emergency. and you literally have never

proposed a bill on anything that you're not talking about in your campaign. you had the worst attendance record in the assembly. and you gave yourselves the highest raise in the united states of america, you went from $110,000 to $140,000 and then you never showed up for work and you missed 80% of the votes. shame on you. shame on you. zohran: always a pleasure to hear andrew cuomo create his own facts at every debate stage. we just had a former governor say in his own words that the city has been getting screwed by the state. who was leading the state? it was you. andrew: governor hochul. zohran: you were leading the state for 1 years. you cut funding for the m.t.a. you did all of these things my friend. andrew: it's been four years. >> ok, guy, i didn't want to

have to do this. but you understand how this works. you can't talk over each other. nothing works if you do that. i believe we've heard your response. i want to give you a quick word and then we'll move on. curtis: i heard the both of them again fight like kids in the school-yard. zoe run, your resume could fit on a -- zohran your resume could fit on a cocktail napkin and andrew, your failures could fill a public school library in new york city. >> we'll move now to public safety and there was some breaking news from the new york city times that you, mr. mamdani, would ask police commissioner to stay on as police commissioner if you are indeed mayor. i want to confirm that that's true. if mr. cuomo and mr. sliwa would you ask the current police commissioner to stay on if you were elected? zohran: yes, i can confirm that reporting. my administration will be relentless in its pursuit of safety and affordable for every new yorker. and the delivery of that will require us to put together a team of the best and the

brightest. eric adams stacked the upper echelons of the nypd with corruption and incompetence. commissioner tisch took on a broken status quo, started to deliver accountability, are rooting out corruption and crime across the five boroughs. my litmus test for that position will be excellence and the alignment will be of that position. i'm confident that under a mamdani administration we'll continue to deliver on that same mission and do so while creating the department of community safety to ensure mental health experts respond to the mental health crisis. safety and justice is at the cornerstone of our pursuit of public safety and in ding so we'll also be able to deliver our agenda for affordability. >> thank you. briefly, quickly. mr. sliwa and mr. cuomo, would you ask the commissioner to stay on if you're elected mayor? curtis: yes, i would for stability. but then again i don't think she would serve with either cuomo or

zohran because she's railed -- she's railed against no cash bail. that's why criminals are running in the street. >> mr. cuomo? andrew: i would ask her to stay on. i don't believe zohran when he says he would ask her to stay on. the d.s.a.'s position, his position, has been to defund this band of police. she wouldn't take that. today's position was freeze the budget. that would cause a reduction in police. she is -- she has called for more police. i called for more police. mayor adam called for more police. so their philosophies are totally incongruous. d.s.a. calls for eliminating misdemeanors. he wants to decriminalize prostitution. i don't think she'd support any of that. we can't speak for her she's not here. i would ask the public safety question, we'll start with you, mr. sliwa. the issues of crime and disorder on the streets. nypd says the crime is going

down in most major categories but to new yorkers there's still concern with disorder and their own unique perception of crime. do you think addressing quality of life concerns helps prevent more serious crimes and how would you deploy the city's police force to deal with those serious violent crimes and also quality of life offenses like disorderly conduct and reach out theft? curtis: i made all 350 neighborhoods, i'm the only candidate on the subway each and every day. i've yet to hear from one new yorker who says they feel safer. and eric adams constantly hectoringat us. it's the perception the perception. no it's the reality of crime. we need 7,000 police officers. we need to get police officers in the subway, patrolling the moving cars where people are most threat and most frightened. and we need to bring back the homeless outreach unit that was disbanded when deblasio took $1

billion out of the budget. these were men and women, police officers, who already had with them medical nurses and health care practitioners but it was deblasio who abolished it. they've been talking about bringing something back ever since but they never do it because i'm out there on the subways every day and i never see it. when i'm mayor it gets done on day one. the homeless outreach unit. is put back into the nypd. >> thank you. mr. mamdani. zohran: when i hear from new yorkers of where they feel least safe they will often tell me, the subway system. when they explain those moments to me what they are often explaining is a mental health crisis in our city and a crisis of homelessness that's only continued to grow. and that is why at the heart of our public safety agenda, is a ground brecking proposal to not only reduce crime but address these very moments of unease for new yorkers across the five boroughs by creating a department of community safety. they'll be focused on the mental

health crisis, on homelessness, and ensure that police officers can focus on serious crimes because in 2020, the response time for those officers was less than 11 minutes. today it is closer to 16 minutes. and that's because every year they are now responding to 200,000 mental health calls when those are calls that could by and large be taken by ex-pers trained on responding to that very crisis. >> mr. cuomo. andrew: the answer is always a new government agency. it's manage the system. manage the public safety system. we know how to do. this mayor david dinkins did it when we had a real crime problem. hire more police officers. of course you have to deal with the mentally ill. of course that requires mental health specialists. with police. because the situation can be dangerous. but hire the 5,000 more cops because they're all quitting

because they're getting worked too hard. you're going to have to raise the starting salary. because nobody wants to be a cop today. the way they're treated. put 1,500 in the subways. forget this zohran idea of not prosecuting misdemeanors. prosecute misdemeanors. those are quality of life crimes. and that's very important. yes, the subways are scary. but it's scary in their neighborhoodtoo. so those quality of life crimes also have to be addressed. zohran: no matter how many times and true cuomo describes it as my idea or my policy, i never once stated we would not prosecute misdemeanors. that's what you see from the former governor, someone who spends more time talking about the plat forms of other organizations and other individuals than the one i've put forward or the one he's supposed to be running on. >> and now brian, another

question. >> excuse me one second. can i just respond? curtis: whether it's misdemeanor felony, no cash bail releases them back into the streets. you're both for no cash bail. >> you'll get your opportunities. i want to bring up a particular crime concern. violence among younger new yorkers specifically teenagers. my question is, what is your stance on the statewide raise the age law which increased the age of adult criminal responsibility from 16 years old to 18 for most crimes? police commissioner tisch says, yet, the menialty on the street is that nothing happens to those under 18 who possess a gun. so would you support modifying raise the age in any way? and mr. mamdani since you announced you would invite commissioner tisch to stay on, would you go along with her on this? zohran: i would not support

changes to the state's legislation and i would not support them because the major issue with the implementation of the legislation is the fact that there's hundreds of millions of $s that was supposed to be delivered alongside that law that is still languishing in albany. i'm excited to be the next mayor of this city to finally fight for the money that this city is owed to ensure we deliver it to our young people across the f.y. boroughs. >> mr. cuomo. andrew: what i was referring to before is, zohran is a member of the d.s.a., democratic socialists of america. they have a charter. he gives them 3% of his salary. he has said multiple times, i am a conform s.a. member, i pledge allegiance they've say abolish jails. defund police. don't enforce misdemeanors. go to andrewcuomo.com, it's on the front page. on the raise the age, i passed the law. i support the law.

we were one of only two states that put 16 and 17-year-olds in adult prisons. it was inhumane. it was cruel and unusual. and i'm proud of that law. it's administered by local governments. some are doing it better than others. if zohran thought there was money locked up in albany maybe he should have gone to albany and proposed a bill to release it. >> mr. sliwa. curtis: once again the architect of raise the age, governor cuomo, the apprentice to him, zohran. it's personal for me. imy oldest is on anthony last october was the victim of a vicious gang assault that could have killed him. and what happened to these jewells? cut free. because they went to family court not criminal court. so how can both of you look at me, i almost lost my oldest son to gang violence, and the perpetrator went to family court and got a little pat on the wrist and were sent home to do it again and again.

no. we need to start charging juveniles who commit violent crime in criminal court, and i'll appoint criminal court judges who follow the law and don't just release them because of no cash bail. >> clear difference between you on that. >> candidates, i've got individual questions for you. we'll try to pick up the pace a little bit here. i'd like you really to explain where you're coming from. mr. mamdani couacaud for reorganizing the nypd to make the department of community safety to handle calls involving people in mental health distress. your opponents disparaged this assenning social workers rather than cop into dangerous situations like domestic violence disputes. explain what you have in mind and please include any evidence that this approach would work. zohran: absolutely. what my opponents are clinging to is the past. because that's all that they know. what i am proposing is something that will address the needs of

new yorkers in the present. we speak and hear from new yorkers across the five boroughs who outline how the mental health crisis is one of the major challenges in this city. yet what we have in our city is asking those same police officers who are being asked to respond to shootings, respond to murders, to also respond to these calls. i trust the dispatchers who would be receiving these calls to make the determination as to whether there was any indication of crime if there's no indication of a threat of violence, then we would send the mental health experts and providers to respond to those same incident. the reason i believe in the efficacy of this approach is because of the fact that it has been delivered elsewhere in the country. so no matter how often you hear those on this stage tell you that something cannot be done, know that there are others in this same country who have seen it and it is time for that same policy to come to new york city. >> mr. sliwa and mr. cuomo. i have a similar question for both of you. the department currently fields about 33,000 officers, down from

37,000 in 2018. public safety budget approaching $10 billion. you want to hire 7,000 more cops, mr. slow watch mr. cuomo says 5,000 more. make the case for why you think that's necessary especially given the fact that for crime -- for much of new york city crime declines other the last 0 years happened while the size of the force was also declining and not rising. curtis: i have to revisit the last debate for a second when zohran was base this policy on what they do in eugene, oregon. you've never been to eugene, oregon, i have. where you out of your mind? and columbus, ohio. this is new york city, a major metropolitan area with thousands of 911 call, domestic abuse. emotionally disturbed persons. and you want to have social workers go out there and risk their life and by the way they're not going to get the results a trained professional police officer can get. that's why we so desperately need 7,000 new cops, we'll use

the boston model which is pay now in lieu of taxes they do it at harvard university and other university, will raise $1 billion. get them vetted trained and out into the streets so they can be seen in all the neighborhoods and most importantly, do the job they were sworn to do and i will make sure that their insurance, the qualifying immunity, that was stripped from them, the only civil servants not protected by the tax payer is returned so that they can freely go out and do what they were trained to do, to protect all of the people of new york city. >> mr. cuomo? andrew: there is nothing new here. we've had mentally ill homeless people going back to the billy boggs case, under the ed koch administration. i ran homeless services not just for david dinkins but also president clinton. i've worked in every state on all homeless programs. i've spent dozens of nights out

trying to bring mentally ill people in. it can be done with mental health workers and police workers. you cannot tell from a phone call if a person is going to be dangerous. and i have seen personally many times a person who seemed very calm and sedate explode into rage. why? because this is sometimes a symptom of mental illness. so there's nothing new here. it just had to be done and managed. yes you need more police. you need more police first of all because they're quitting because there are not enough to staff the force and they're working overtime and weekends and their family life is destroyed so you have to -- so you have the highest attrition rate in modern history. you have to hire 5,000 just to slow down attrition. curtis: 40,000 beds for mental

health in the state hospital system. by the time you flip, you cut the budget down to 4,000 beds. shame on you for putting the disturbed persons in the sleet. andrew: you don't know what you're -- no one is saying to go back to willow brook. that's when there were 40,000 people in mental institutions. we left that 40 years ago when we -- >> let's stay in this century, guys. we're going to do our lightning round. each candidate will answer the questions with a brief response, usually yes or no. i'll do the first couple. if you had the power would you keep, kill or modify the congestion pricing. curtis: one and done. dead. zohran: keep. andrew: keep. >> would you expand, decrease or keep the same number of safe

injection sites for drug users in the city? keep the same. andrew: keep. curtis: close the. >> the previous mayor allocated a certain percentage of parks. would you do the same? kurt. chris: keep your hands off the parks. zohran: 1%. andrew: 1%. >> the city recently enacted a 15-mile-per-hour speed limit for e-bikes and there are the other motorized two wheelers that also free agent frequently ignore traffic light and other traffic laws. would you implement speeding up the traffic violations on

e-bikes and other two wheelers? andrew: yes. zohran: i would build on the city counsel's idea of charging the apps. i do not think the police should be the ones dealing with the failures of theirs app companies. curtis: license them, register them and yes, do enforcement on them. >> there is a ballot to align merrill elections with presidential louisiana techings. do you support this? curtis: absolutely not. all the attention would go to the presidential election. zohran: i haven't yet taken a position on any of the ballot proposals. andrew: again? again and again and again. yes. >> thank you so much. first question, do you support

having a casino in the five boroughs, a full casino and do you have a favorite among the three current contenders? curtis: only if the community wants it. zohran: i'm skeptical of casinos but voters did vote to bring them to the city. >> do you have a favorite of the three? zohran: no. >> mr. cuomo? andrew: uh i did not review the proposals, i did not vote. let me state some facts. i did not vote to bring the casinos to new york city. i brought casinos in upstate new york as economic development measures. i think it's highly problematic and i think there's going to be a lot more to come. curtis: you and zohran had 10 answers to a straight question.

>> if there was a ranking how would you vote? zohran: myself number one and curtis number two. curtis: please, don't be glaching me here, zohran. are you kidding? i support right choice voting but i'd only vote for myself. >> mr. cuomo? andrew: i love that zohran and curtis take that idea. i'm enamored with it. i'd just rank myself. >> would any of you accept mayor adam's endorsement? zohran: yes. andrew: yes. curtis: absolutely not. >> is your favorite live music place in new york city? curtis: chain smokers.

zohran: forest hill stadium? andrew: under the cusuco bridge. >> who'd you see? andrew: i picked up my daughters. that's as close as i got. >> each candidate gets a chance to and one question of one rival. we'll begin with curtis sliwa. curtis: zohran, you talk about free, free, free. but we know that somebody's got to pay for it and the that's you, the taxpayers and that's going to lead to bankruptcy. the only reason that zohran is on the stage is because of the failed governor cuomo who was rejected by the dallas in the primary and rejected by 13 women who charged you with sexual harassment. you know what no means? andrew: your question is to

mr. mamdani? who was your question to? >> it's to cuomo. >> your response, mr. cuomo? andrew: i'm not sure what the man said. but the situation -- my legal situation, as we discussed before, was fully litigated. i was dropped from the cases. if anyone has a legal situation to talk about, i think it's mr. sliwa who runs the guardian angels and apparently as a charitable donation but never filed any tax returns for the guardian angels and has been accepting charitable donations, which is just a crime and tax fraud, so i think that's the person who has some explaining to do. >> your turn to ask a question, mr. cuomo. andrew: to zohran, i believe, as we've stated, that you have been a devive force in new york and i

believe that's toxic energy for new york. it's with the jewish community. the italian american community when you give the columbus statue the finger. it's with the sunni muslims, it's the hindus but then you take a picture with rebecca kadaga, deputy prime minister of uganda. you take a picture with your father. you're smiling, he's smiling. she's known as rebecca "gay killer" kadaga. you're a citizen of uganda. you took the picture, you said you didn't know who she was. it turns out you did. how do you not remand your citizen or demand -- for uganda against imprisoning people who

are gay. isn't that a basic violation of human rights? zohran: my politics is consistent and my politics is built on a belief in human rights for all people and that extends to queer and trans new yorkers and it extends to queer and trans ugandans and had i known that the first deputy was the architect of that legislation i would not have taken that photo. this constant attempt to smear and wilander me is an attempt to take away from the fact that you do not have a policy to protect those same new yorkers here. all you have is insult those you have loved at every opportunity you have. >> your turn to ask a question.

>> mr. cuomo. in 2021. 13 different women who worked in your separation credibly accused you of sexual harassment. since then you have spent more than $20 million in taxpayer funds all while describing these as entirely political. you have even gone so far as to legally go after these women. one of those women, charlotte bennett, is here in the audience. you sought to access her private gynecology cal record. she cannot peek speak up for herself because you lodged a defamation case against her. i, however, can speak. what do i say to the 1 women that you sexually harassed? >> if you want to be in government, then you have to be

serious and mature. there were allegations of sexual harassment. they went to five district attorneys, fully litigated for four years. the cases were dropped. you know that as a fact so everything you just said was a misstate. because the cases were dropped. that's what happenedded and my question to you, you still won't answer, why don't you b.p.s. against uganda for saying gase shouldn't be -- you have them for israel but none for uganda. >> thank you very much. >> our next top i think is education. the next mayor will oversee the largest school system in the

united states. we have an education question for each of you. mr. mamdani, you said you would give up merrill control of schools and share it with various stakeholders but in the last debate you said you're still for merrill accountability for education outcomes. this has confused some people about how you can give up final authority but still hold yourself accountable. >> i remain opposed to merrill control and i also believe that the mayor is accountable for what happens in this city. i will not shirk in from that accountability. one in 300 americans is a city in the new york public school system. this is a system where we are failing to deliver excellence to students, to teachers, to parents and it is time to have a mayor who understands not only the crisis in front of us but

the fact that we have to change our ways if we want to change our results and that's what we are running on, a plan for the future. >> mr. sliwa, you proposed reducing the education budget by about 12% to help pay for tax cuts but your website includes things like "hire more therapists. build new vocational high schools, restore arts programs, expand athletic programs and increase teacher pay to attract and retain top talents." those are exact quotes from your website. how do you defund the education department by 25% to cut taxes and do the tax administration's various cuts and do all these spanses at the same time. sliwa: you have a bureaucracy at the courthouse. you have 1 deputy chance

legislators, about 50 department heads. nobody at the school level ever deals with them. $41,000 we pay per student and teachers still have to reach into their pockets to pay for basic supplies. you cut at the top contracts that had been negotiated that have not been overseen. you will save millions and millions of dollars and yes, you open up the schools as it was when i went to public school. after night center, weekend center. not just sports but plays. they used to be able to take instruments home when they were in the band. 1/3 of our children don't even come to school each day and we need more vocational training, raise the cap and have more charter schools for the children who have been waiting to get in for years.

>> mr. cuomo, there's currently a state law to reduce class sizes in the city. you recently declared that as reckless and you also want to start closing low-performing schools, one of the most controversial policies of mayor bloomberg. would you defy the class size law and if you close existing schools rather than work to improve them, what specifically he's helps the kids learn more and where? andrew: the common denominator in all these, the question is what yo of is your plan to change things and what is your ability and experience to do it? these are management challenges and i have managed large bureaucracies. the department of education, we lost one million students. what's happening is young families have to make a decision when a child doesn't go to school. decide to go to the suburbs, go

to jersey, they're not going to sacrifice their kid. it's a problem for the entire city, the shrinking public school city. i would double the gifted ask talented programs, double the number of specialized high schools, keep the s.a.t. and keep mayoral control. it is wholey inconsistent to say i think it's a top priority but i want to by up mayoral control but i want to be a mayor who runs grocery stores. forget the grocery stores. run the department of education, the most single instrumental reform. mayor bloomberg was right. >> would you defund the class size law? andrew: this hasn't been doing its share for the student. >> just a fact, jeong we've lost

a million students. we have just under a million. who is in they're of the cell phone ban in school. raise your hands. everyone has raised their hands. they all are in this favor of the cell spoken phone ban. thank you. >> the jail complex on rikers is supposed to close in 2027, it's something that the next mayor is going to have to navigate. the population has only gone up. it's surpassing 7,000 detainees and a judge put it on federal receivership. as mayor will you commit to the closure of rikers island and if not, what is your alternative plan? curtis: the architect for the closing of rikers island is on this stage. governor cuomo. he was the first and his apprentice. zohran mamdani. no, keep rikers island open. there are seven functioning

buildings. you can move those who mental problems and gi them the aid their need. we have allocated $8 billion for four community jails. the price tag is now up to 16 billion and will only house 4,000 of the 7,000. guess what, we keep the inmates on rikers island and we turn those four units in the neighborhoods into affordable housing that we've all been clamoring for. >> what about the law that requires the closing? >> oh, you go into court. you fight, fight, fight. you fight for the taxpayers and you fight to keep inmates on rikers island so that we don't just have to lock up toothpaste in new york city but we lock up inmates. >> mr. cuomo? andrew: you can't, you can't.

unless you intend to release all the people on rikers island, which is the democratic socialist policy. the county jails are not going to be built. it was a mistake, the whole plan was a mistake. they are years late, billions over budget. i would say scrap the county jails, build new jails on rikers island, provide ferry and bus transportation for people from the other bros to visit -- boroughs to rift on rikers island. but you cannot close rikers in 2027 because there's no place to put the people, unless you're going to release 7,000 people. >> you're familiar that a law is passed, it's pose supposed to be followed even if the timeline is

screwed up, even if the money is not there. andrew: yeah, and i'm saying i'm not going to release 7,000 criminals into new york city. >> mr. mamdani? zohran: there is no one on this stage that is saying that. what i have said time and time, i'll repeat it again is that, yes, we have to close rikers island. rikers island is a stain on the history of this city. and that this current administration has made it nearly impossible to do so by the stipulated timeline so i will do everything in my power to try and meet that deadline knowing that eric adams has made it so difficult because he's had no interest in following through on it. and as much as you will hear about experience and running a government, what andrew cuomo doesn't seem to understand is that the city has already entered into contracts for these

jails and to contribute that would incur massive penalties. but he doesn't seem to understand that. andrew: you want to talk to me about running government or managing projects? i built the second avenue subway. the mario cuomo bridge. the largest infrastructure project in the united states, on time, on wasn't. moynahan train. of course there's coston occurred. the question is how much more does it cost to finish the jail and are you better off cutting your losses? that's the question and the discussion and you sit down request with a contractor and negotiate but your position of i'm going to close it on 2027, the question is yes or no. do you close it in 2027? you still haven't answered. zohran: you will hear from and

drew cuomo about his experience as if the issue is we don't know about it. the issue is that we have all experienced your experience. the issue is that we experienced you taking a $5 million book deal while you sent seniors to their deaths in nursing homes. we experienced you cutting money to the f. -- we saw you give $950 million in tax breaks to elon musk. the issue is your experience. andrew: the issue is you have no experience. you've accomplished nothing. you haven't proposed a bill on anything. and you still haven't said if you'll close rikers in 2027. >> stop, stop. i got the answers to the questions i was asking. let's move on. >> my next question is about another law already on the books. the city has a climate law, local law 97 that will require a

large percentage of the buildings in the city to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 20% by 2040 or face financial penalties. some con do land lords are afraid of crushing expenses but client is responsible for 70% of the city's emissions. we want to hear from each of you, starting with mr. cuomo. would you abide by and make others abide by local law 97 as it stands? andrew: as it stands? as it stands, you're going to have to be flexible in the application. what's going to happen now is, many, many companies will just pay the fine because it's cheaper than actually following

the rules. and that's the last thing you want. that accomplishes nothing. it's just another tax in essence on these units. so there's going to have to be flexibility. it's the right intent, it's the right goal but how you implement it has to deal with reality. and the costs. again, otherwise i can tell you. i've had this conversation with many of them. they're not even going to try. they're just going to pay the fine. >> what kind of flexibility if you could be specific? andrew: timing and what do we mean and can it be phased? >> mr. mamdani? zohran: the climate crisis is one of the most pressing problems facing this city. it is right now easier to pay the fine than to comply with this legislation. we have to ensure that we make it easier for condo and co-op owners to follow those laws and we do that by eliminating the

application fees for 71, by creating a one-shop stop in new york city government that procures at a large scale heat pumps and the kind of infrastructure needed to apply. we've seen this done before with clean energy work in woodside houses. it's time to bring that kind of work right here. >> i recommend that you're proposing the city buy those heat pumps and other things in bulk and give them to land lords and others for free? zohran: no, to ensure they can afford the purchase by using an economy of scale. curtis: i'm the only one totally opposed to the local 97. their maintenance fees will go up 130%. they won't have enough reserve frees. you'll see massive flight from the co-ops and condos. they want toleft hooktary fry

everything. there was a man on stage who took away 25% of our electrical output and we haven't been able to meet the needs and now they're starting to build these lit onoin battery warehouses. brooklyn, 12, eight in queens, four in the bronx and none in man halt season oh, no. they're going to electrify and they don't have the electrical output so i say no to local 97. were i mayor, we slow it down because we want want these owners to stay. >> mr. mayor -- andrew: ending point was a danger. it was the most nuclear power plant most closely located to the densest population. there was no nuclear plant on

the globe that close to a city. there were 20 million people in what was called the kill zone. before i became attorney general, there has been a number of lawsuits to stop it. we brought cables down from upstate new york down the hudson river. we had nuclear upstate in rural areas to bring that nuclear power down the cables and then on that basis substitute for indian point's power. >> yes or no -- curtis: electricity rates are too high to pay because of you. >> nuclear plants to help bring down the rising costs of utilities in new york state. yes or no? curtis: upstate, yes. zohran: i think it's worth exploring. >> mr. cuomo? andrew: is that a yes? zohran: no. andrew: yes. >> we're going to move on to the economy.

mr. mamdani, you're protesting to raise the city's minimum wage to $30 an hour by 2030. how would you get the state legislator to go along with your plan and do you think it's realistic to feel that a small business owner would have to may every plea this mom? zohran: this would be something that the city would have to do itself. the reason we put forward $30 by 2030 is that that's the minimum that a new yorker needs to pay to be able to afford to live in this city and what we are looking at right now is the possibility of the place that we know and love becoming a museum of where working class people used be able to live. our proposal would be phased in over a long period of time for small business owners to ensure that they could deal with this and it's one we feel confident

we'd be able to accomplish because the absence of it is pushing new yorkers to live in jersey city, pennsylvania, connecticut because they can't afford to live in new york city. >> thank you, and for mr. sliwa and mr. cuomo, if you're not in favor of a $30 an hour wage, what are your plans? curtis: zohran mamdani draws with fantasy, not realty. look at all the uber, taxi drivers, lyft drivers? they will now have driverless cars. that's what they're pushing. a.i. is going to wipe out so many jobs. especially for men and women who went to college four years, and then they're making $155,000 and then they get wiped out. zohran, start dealing with reality. you're pushing businesses out because you want to tax them.

i'm the only one here who wants the cut the income taxes, the property taxes. but if you raise the minimum wage too high, they're going to end up going in a different direction and they're not going to hire workers. it's going to be robots and driverless cars and a.i. and i'm opposed to that. >> thank you, mr. cuomo. andrew: yeah, i half agree with curtis. zohran does have socialist theory colliding with practical reality. i went through this. we raised minimum wage to the highest in the united states of america. new york set the bar. we set it at $15. every other state said that's crazy when we did it. people this state said that was crazy when we did it. but it was calibrated, it was doable, we phased it in this different parts of the state, we phased it in with small

businesses, we gave them assistance because if you rise it too high and i believe 30 is too high. i would raise it to 20. if you raise it too high, people lose their jobs, you bankrupt businesses. you're talking to be basically doubling payroll and you can have a negative effect where literally businesses close and people lose their jobs and overall, again, it's another tax on corporations, another reason to leave new york, another reason to pack up the family and get on i've 95 and go to south carolina and florida and texas. >> all right. candidates, we are coming down the homestretch. i want to alert our media partners especially, we're going to go over by five minutes and we're going to have brian lead a conversation about transit. >> right, and we're going to have to do this very briefly. to each of you because you each

have transit things to answer to. mr. cuomo, you say the city should take partial control of new york city transit away from the m.t.a. which is mostly controlled by the state. would the city then have to foot more of the bill and if this is a good idea, why. andrew: first of all, new york city owns the new york city transit authority not the m.t.a. and leases the subways to the m.t.a. and the division of responsibility, new york city does the safety along with the m.t.a. the problem that the m.t.a. is the capital construction projects and ongoing problem. i came in and i took over the subway, the l-train tunnel. the capital construction projects are way overdue.

>> do you want the city to pay? andrew: the m.t.a. which is a bureaucracy set up by rockefeller which should have never been done in the first place, it's an overwhelming task for the greatest managers and i hired both of them. but let the i city manage it from the m.t.a. budget. >> mr. mamdani make your brohm for free buses. zohran: one of the most celebrated leaders was andy byford and i would work under donald trump right now. the proposal addresses the fact that today in the wealthiest country, one in five new yorkers cannot afford the bus fare. it would cost to make the

slowest buses fast and free and doing so we would generate in economic revenue for new yorkers across the city and reduce assaults on bus drivers and it would have environmental impacts as fewer new yorkers would take a taxi and get on the bus. i delivered it as a state assembly member. >> and your website has a section on transit safety but nothing on transit service. do you have any proposals for improving it? curtis: i get a good belly laugh when you say free fare. half the people don't pay any way. i'm the only one who says we have programs for the indigent and the poor and if you don't

need your fare i have taken the subway every day the worst time was the summer of 2017 the summer of hell andrew cuomo when and i don't trust you with anything. >> how would you make it better? >> everybody pays their fare and more cops and more people to voluntarily sponsor their subway stations clean it up and beauty file and add some lights so the community has insight. >> just a couple of minutes. another quick lightning round and a quick response yes or no. name one person you would like to see one person run for

president. curtis: in 2028, man, i'm dealing with 2025. zohran: my focus is 2025. >> we have city of greet. >> choi. >> bone as diaz. [speaking foreign language] >> i would ask bob holden who has taught 40 years. >> i haven't decided. >> ok. should people be arrested for the solicitation of sex. curtis: no. the johns, yes, the pimps and the madams and absentee landlords.

>> no. >> criminal lization for prostitutes johns and pimps would be a disaster. >> you say should be arrested? andrew: i would keep it as it is. >> name one thing that new york got right during the covid crisis? curtis: he didn't get anything right during the covid crisis. zohran: took me 15 minutes to get my shots. andrew: thank you for the compliment. [laughter] >> that is going to do it for this debate. i would like to thank the candidates and our partners at home. if you miss thd debate, watch it is in its intighter.

voting will start on saturday including city controller, public advocate and members of the city council as well as six ballot initiatives. election day is november 4. thank you for watching. have a great evening. >> friday, on c-span ceasefire, in a time of sharp political divides two senators come together for a candid conversation, senator coons and senator lankford discuss the government shutdown and talk about what really matters, friday only on c-span. >> watch america's book club, c-span's bold new original series, sunday with our guest

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